tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post114464364600481782..comments2023-10-20T07:28:50.948-07:00Comments on Better Bibles Blog: Orthotomeo VIIWayne Lemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18024771201561767893noreply@blogger.comBlogger5125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1144786968222020732006-04-11T13:22:00.000-07:002006-04-11T13:22:00.000-07:00Lingamish, Good point about the following verse...Lingamish,<BR/> Good point about the following verses.<BR/> The word εργατης is in the accusative because it is in apposition with the σεαυτον, the object of παραστησαι. This brings up a point about the wording of this verse that's worth a quick post.Richard A. Rhodeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14227550014596898280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1144773074044566432006-04-11T09:31:00.000-07:002006-04-11T09:31:00.000-07:00Richard,You might want to add a reference in this ...Richard,<BR/><BR/>You might want to add a reference in this post to your original discussion of the "Metaphors we live by" book.<BR/><BR/>I know we have been making a lot of the "worker" in this passage, but I think you can strengthen the DISCUSSION IS A JOURNEY argument by comparing this section to Paul's comments that immediately follow this in which almost all the errors that he lists involve speaking of some form.<BR/><BR/>Finally, you mention LOGON as object of the verb. I'd be curious about the postion of ERGATEN in this phrase. It is also accusative.David Kerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13140007604009678479noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1144737880918802452006-04-10T23:44:00.000-07:002006-04-10T23:44:00.000-07:00Peter, The form committal should be the nomina...Peter,<BR/> The form <I>committal</I> should be the nominalization for the 'hand over' sense. But attempts at using it in nominalizing clauses sound truly weird.<BR/><BR/>??<I>Our committal of John to Skidmore was painful for the whole family.</I><BR/><BR/>??<I>John's committal (by us) to Skidmore was painful for the whole family.</I><BR/><BR/>better,<BR/><BR/><I>Our committing John to Skidmore was painful for the whole family.</I><BR/><BR/>but notice that the <I>of</I> is missing, so this is a poss-<I>ing</I> construction and not a nominalization.<BR/><BR/>I don't really have the word <I>committal</I> in my vocabulary as usable outside of the adjective <I>non-committal</I>, which has to do with the 'promise' sense.Richard A. Rhodeshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14227550014596898280noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1144660569685239162006-04-10T02:16:00.000-07:002006-04-10T02:16:00.000-07:00Surely the noun form of "commit ... (2) ‘transfer,...Surely the noun form of "commit ... (2) ‘transfer, hand over’" is "committal" - at least in terms of being committed to an institution.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1144650661143303662006-04-09T23:31:00.000-07:002006-04-09T23:31:00.000-07:00Richard,Thanks for the thoughtful response. After...Richard,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for the thoughtful response. <BR/><BR/>After considering the options, I prefered to retain the accepted notion (not terribly adventurous of me, but there it is) that the verb fundamentally means to "teach" or "preach" the word, but thought that the underlying metaphor might affect how we understand the passage as a whole. <BR/><BR/>What tips the scales in the direction of 'teaching the true word' rather than 'living a righteous life' for me is still the word εργατης. Can you elaborate further on your transition from εργατης, the worker, to the notion of difficulty? I would associate εργατης with working as a skilled craftsman, crafting something as a skill or industry, creating or producing something for others. <BR/><BR/>The other pointer is δοκιμος, 'esteemed' or 'trustworthy', rather than 'righteous'. If the person is trustworthy, then it appears that they have been given a task to carry out for the sake of others, at least, I would infer that. <BR/><BR/>The overall context also points in the direction of Timothy as teacher of the word, although this must certainly entail living the righteous life. I have also toyed with the idea of seeing an echo of John the Baptist preparing the hearts of the people for Christ. <BR/><BR/>So I see the meaning as being about how one teaches. "Don't preach an extreme view on either side, but stick to the middle (straight and smooth) in your teaching, emphasize the central point, and don't cause others to stumble by bringing up and making a test of faith things that are tangential and disputed." <BR/><BR/>I agree with you wholeheartedley that we should ditch all notions of cutting/dividing, as well as the association with sharpness or precision. Thanks for explaining that so well.Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.com