tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post115087462828985285..comments2023-10-20T07:28:50.948-07:00Comments on Better Bibles Blog: Good News for Everyone V: Worldwide EnglishWayne Lemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18024771201561767893noreply@blogger.comBlogger15125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1151018519989591262006-06-22T16:21:00.000-07:002006-06-22T16:21:00.000-07:00Anon,Thanks for bringing our attention to that com...Anon,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for bringing our attention to that comment thread. One of the more exciting ones I admit. I notice first my own contributions riddled with typos and irrelevancies. But there were some interesting contributions re women and communism which I had not read before - I did not follow all the links. Rather interesting in the end.<BR/><BR/>I think the central point, though briefly mentioned, was that <A HREF="http://www.bible-researcher.com/tniv2.html" REL="nofollow">our commenter posts and supports the Statement of Concern against the TNIV.</A> This is the statement that I personally would like to see withdrawn from the internet. <BR/><BR/>In fact, this is the single most important reason for me to post here.<BR/><BR/>So our interaction with this person was on this basis, that we would like to see this statement withdrawn.Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1151005714699628112006-06-22T12:48:00.000-07:002006-06-22T12:48:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00471792031082544671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1150982741313123112006-06-22T06:25:00.000-07:002006-06-22T06:25:00.000-07:00Well, I have done this in reverse order, reading c...Well, I have done this in reverse order, reading comments on the next post first. I think the main thing here is that this conversation must continue. We cannot let it founder in a morass of previously decided certainties! <BR/><BR/>At least for my sake, who am still in the process of forming my opinions on these things. I must admit Anon, that I am on the side of comprehension first, but I do not want to chase away your contributions! I would have a Bible with 'release' in it.Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1150970498404075702006-06-22T03:01:00.000-07:002006-06-22T03:01:00.000-07:00Anonymous, thanks for your controversial contribut...Anonymous, thanks for your controversial contribution. Perhaps I can understand why you insist on remaining anonymous when you write like that!<BR/><BR/>I was not exactly being sarcastic when I talked about "<I>words which sound nice and holy</I>". But I was not being positive about people like you who are more concerned about what the Bible sounds like than whether it is understood. The Bible was not originally written in high level literary language (except perhaps for a few passages like Luke 1:1-4), nor in especially holy language, but in the oridinary common language of the people. That is very clear with the Greek, which is very similar to the Koine used in everyday letters of the time as well as by secular authors. As for the Hebrew, we cannot be so sure but there is no reason to suggest that the language used was anything special.<BR/><BR/>You correctly point out that "<I>there are still many passages which remain obscure</I>", and that "<I>a difficult translation may be more faithful to the original</I>". Indeed this may be true of Ephesians 1:3-10 as a whole, which is grammatically complex although not really obscure. But it is clearly not true of the Greek word translated "redound", which is simply the preposition εἰς <I>eis</I> "to". Perhaps something needs to be added here for good English style, but there is no obscurity in the original at this point, and so there is no justification under any translation philosophy for introducing an obscurity here. I doubt if the REB translators thought they were being obscure, it is just that they, probably wrongly, judged "redound" to be a clear and acceptable word to their target audience.<BR/><BR/>Anonymous, if you really want your Bible to be "holy", in the quite unbiblical sense of the word you have in mind, and don't care about whether it is understood, why don't you just use it in the original "holy" languages of the angels? Then you can leave translation to those who actually want to use God's word in an understandable form, so that we can obey Jesus' final command (Matthew 28:19-20, TNIV) to "<I>make disciples of all nations ... teaching them to obey everything [he has] commanded [us]</I>".Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1150965010681013272006-06-22T01:30:00.000-07:002006-06-22T01:30:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00471792031082544671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1150939785103874622006-06-21T18:29:00.000-07:002006-06-21T18:29:00.000-07:00I've heard it too, but only when someone was readi...I've heard it too, but only when someone was reading the King James Version in Church. ;-) No one in my congregation would know what the word meant.Dorcas (aka SingingOwl)https://www.blogger.com/profile/15626748280614018533noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1150939213664671682006-06-21T18:20:00.000-07:002006-06-21T18:20:00.000-07:00Well, I happily accept gracious and graciously, bu...Well, I happily accept gracious and graciously, but somehow redound not only sounds odd, but it also looks odd, like 'rebound' mispelled. Surely a word must please the eye as well as the ear. <BR/><BR/>We are philistines, but you will try to convince us!<BR/><BR/>I confess I have heard of the word, but that is all.Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1150936791407888712006-06-21T17:39:00.000-07:002006-06-21T17:39:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00471792031082544671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1150934501310053192006-06-21T17:01:00.000-07:002006-06-21T17:01:00.000-07:00"might redound to his praise" (v.6, REB). What doe..."<I>might redound to his praise</I>" (v.6, REB). What does that mean? Is "redound" the verb related to "redundant"? It certainly should be, cf. "abound"/"abundant" etc. Seriously, I don't know. That's the trouble with REB, it uses all kinds of words which sound nice and holy, and iambic, but which people don't really understand. Well, <A HREF="http://www.answers.com/redound&r=67" REL="nofollow">I looked it up at answers.com</A>, and that confirms a link with "redundant", but the primary sense is given as simply "<I>To have an effect or consequence</I>", so not really anything very profound here. In fact I can't see what Greek word it translates, perhaps just εἰς <I>eis</I> "to". So this looks like a rhetorical flourish, the translators showing off that they know fancy words which ordinary people (even this one with an MA in theology) don't.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1150932938314445712006-06-21T16:35:00.000-07:002006-06-21T16:35:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00471792031082544671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1150930727460517552006-06-21T15:58:00.000-07:002006-06-21T15:58:00.000-07:00This is very beautiful overall, especially In Chri...This is very beautiful overall, especially <BR/><BR/><I>In Christ our release is secured and our sins forgiven through the shedding of his blood</I><BR/><BR/>'Release' does communicate the meaning of 'set free' but in a higher stylistic level. I am surprised that it is not used in more translations. <BR/><BR/>It is always soothing to read this passage in a modern phrasing, but I protest a couple of details - the repetition of 'gracious' and 'graciously' and the use of the word redound. <BR/><BR/>However, overall it is very refreshing and meaningful.Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1150929681796631632006-06-21T15:41:00.000-07:002006-06-21T15:41:00.000-07:00This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00471792031082544671noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1150911707001174122006-06-21T10:41:00.000-07:002006-06-21T10:41:00.000-07:00Codepoke, I agree with you in principle, although ...Codepoke, I agree with you in principle, although I would judge "secret" to be a richer word than "hidden", and "veiled" suggests that it was partly visible which is misleading. But this information is also missing in ESV. In modern English a "mystery" is not something hidden or secret, just something strange and not understood.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1150908829957917892006-06-21T09:53:00.000-07:002006-06-21T09:53:00.000-07:00The ommision of "mystery" was the most arresting p...The ommision of "mystery" was the most arresting part of this post to me, too. <BR/><BR/>It seems that omitting mystery is significant data loss. A formerly hidden plan recently revealed is different from just a plan. All three of the meanings in TDNT include the hiddenness as important to the basic meaning. <BR/><BR/>"Secret plan" seems to work, but I would like a richer word than "secret" if I could get it. "Hidden" would be better or "veiled", maybe.Kevin Knoxhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16788817477327510023noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-1150885133661040082006-06-21T03:18:00.000-07:002006-06-21T03:18:00.000-07:00It is good that BWE avoided "mystery" in Eph 1:9, ...It is good that BWE avoided "mystery" in Eph 1:9, because this is a very misleading translation (although an accurate transliteration) of the Greek μυστήριον. This word means "something formerly unknown but now revealed" (at least, revealed to a limited number of initiates), and has nothing to do with "mystery" in the common modern English sense. GNB "secret plan" is better, in a context which makes it clear that this secret has now been revealed to Christian believers.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.com