tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post447478154641563597..comments2023-10-20T07:28:50.948-07:00Comments on Better Bibles Blog: The she assWayne Lemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18024771201561767893noreply@blogger.comBlogger6125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-29716482403001458212007-11-18T14:09:00.000-08:002007-11-18T14:09:00.000-08:00Suzanne, I assume your mother was calling you an "...Suzanne, I assume your mother was calling you an "ass" in the British English and KJV sense, a synonym of "donkey", which was Luther's meaning, rather than in the US English meaning which is quite different and more offensive. It all depends on which part of Canada you and your mother were from, according to <A HREF="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arse" REL="nofollow">this Wikipedia article</A> which explains the various insulting meanings of this word.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-62695732229651997912007-11-17T21:41:00.000-08:002007-11-17T21:41:00.000-08:00Luther's use of expressive language also went much...Luther's use of expressive language also went much further than "ass". They included things you wouldn't normally say in front of your children but they were published anyway. And now after 500 years, I don't think a retraction would be possible.Kevin A. Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05052005947620751144noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-84606810682402768372007-11-17T15:02:00.000-08:002007-11-17T15:02:00.000-08:00PS, It was also one of my mother's favourite insul...PS, <BR/><BR/>It was also one of my mother's favourite insults to her children if we did something rather foolish, <BR/>"You are behaving like a complete ass!" And we would say, "Mother, don't say things like that in public, pleeeease."Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-30837124884628320242007-11-17T12:58:00.000-08:002007-11-17T12:58:00.000-08:00The ass is a quite common early modern metaphor fo...The ass is a quite common early modern metaphor for the fool; it appears in a great deal of early modern evangelical anti-Catholic propaganda.flacius1551https://www.blogger.com/profile/09957435129893987041noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-79221004920475714772007-11-17T07:17:00.000-08:002007-11-17T07:17:00.000-08:00You have me there, Peter. Although this article wa...You have me there, Peter. <BR/><BR/>Although this article was written originally in French by Gerald, I believe, it appears to be mistranslated.<BR/><BR/>The original German was,<BR/><BR/>Hat doch ein esel ein mol geredt, und den engel gesehen, den der Prophet nit sehen wolt. Ist den ein wunder ob ich die wahrheit red, so ich doch ein Mensch byn.<BR/><BR/>This is, in fact, a reference to Luther's letter to the German nobility. <BR/><BR/>Luther's Bible has "eine Eselin". However, it seems from the German that Zell actually said "ein esel" and that the statement was in defense of the right of laity to preach. Naturally, Zell said this before Luther's Bible was available. <BR/><BR/>I will have to check this out further. <BR/><BR/>It turns out that googling Luther and esel shows only that Luther was very fond of the word "esel". He uses it <A HREF="http://www.bible-researcher.com/luther01.html" REL="nofollow">here, </A>for example, and <A HREF="http://www.martinluther.dk/falsk-stand.html" REL="nofollow">here.</A><BR/><BR/>I can't find his original quote but, no doubt, he did say "esel". <BR/><BR/>Somewhere along the line a mistranslation occured - more than one, since the donkey was female, but Zell quoted Luther's letter to German Princes, not his Bible.Suzanne McCarthyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07033350578895908993noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-90836970567563815232007-11-17T05:05:00.000-08:002007-11-17T05:05:00.000-08:00How much the story loses in translation!Maybe! But...<I>How much the story loses in translation!</I><BR/><BR/>Maybe! But Zell, from her name and place of origin (in those days Strasbourg was a German city), probably wrote in German (see also <A HREF="http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Katharina_Zell" REL="nofollow">this article</A> in that language), and <A HREF="http://www.vst.edu/faculty/rghobbs.php" REL="nofollow">R. Gerald Hobbs</A> seems to be mainly an English speaking scholar, based in your own city, who has <A HREF="http://www.vst.edu/pdfs/FacultyCVs/HobbsPUB.pdf" REL="nofollow">published mostly in English</A>. So the chances are that this statement of Zell has been translated from German into English and then into French, before you translated it back into English. It would be good to see something more like the original.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.com