tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post7745062041531024815..comments2023-10-20T07:28:50.948-07:00Comments on Better Bibles Blog: 2 Pet. 1:3 - translating the dativesWayne Lemanhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18024771201561767893noreply@blogger.comBlogger4125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-74984928163435858392007-06-08T15:11:00.000-07:002007-06-08T15:11:00.000-07:00I added the sigmas to have an accurate display of ...I added the sigmas to have an accurate display of the Greek of the NET Bible footnote.Wayne Lemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18024771201561767893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-63248240159323347942007-06-08T15:10:00.000-07:002007-06-08T15:10:00.000-07:00Wayne, you have misquoted the NET footnote! The al...<I>Wayne, you have misquoted the NET footnote! The alternative Greek reading is δία δόξης καὶ ἀρετῆς, "through glory and excellence".</I><BR/><BR/>Thanks, Peter. I guess I'll blame my presbyoptic eyes again. :-)<BR/><BR/>It's difficult to copy Hebrew and Greek from NET Bible footnotes since those footnotes do not use a standard font that will display properly in a blog post. I had to try to copy the Greek from somewhere else and I missed the sigma on the end of each of the nouns.<BR/><BR/>For that matter it looks to me like the Unicode font isn't displaying properly in Internet Explorer. I usually don't check for that since I use Firefox almost exclusively.Wayne Lemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18024771201561767893noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-56576792397706122752007-06-08T14:01:00.000-07:002007-06-08T14:01:00.000-07:00Wayne, you have misquoted the NET footnote! The al...Wayne, you have misquoted the NET footnote! The alternative Greek reading is δία δόξης καὶ ἀρετῆς, "through glory and excellence". Also you don't seem to have realised that this is the reading <A HREF="http://bibledatabase.net/html/stephanos_1550/61_001.htm" REL="nofollow">in the Textus Receptus</A> (the textual basis of KJV, and perhaps the Bishops' Bible) and in the Majority Text (the textual basis of WEB). This makes the KJV reading with "to" rather strange; perhaps this reading was based on <A HREF="http://www.sacred-texts.com/bib/vul/pe2001.htm" REL="nofollow">the Vulgate's</A> "propria gloria, et virtute", which I think must imply a dative.<BR/><BR/>But I must say I judge that the reading with "to" is unlikely to be correct. We may be called to glory and excellence, but not to God's own glory and excellence which are his alone. I think my own preference would be to translate as a dative of advantage, with the difficult word <I>arete</I> understood in the same way as in 1 Peter 2:9: our Christian life should be glorifying God by demonstrating how excellent he is. I have some trouble making sense of the instrumental understanding "by", preferred by many modern English versions, although of course this must apply in the following verse which starts (literally) "through which", and "which" must refer back to God's glory and excellence.Peter Kirkhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13395635409427347613noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-11875966.post-66632171883510486292007-06-08T12:42:00.000-07:002007-06-08T12:42:00.000-07:00I would like to point out that the KJV, RV, ASV, a...I would like to point out that the KJV, RV, ASV, and RSV, (as well as its descendents' NASB and NRSV) included these footnotes. (See, for example, <A HREF="http://oll.libertyfund.org/Home3/HTML.php?recordID=0610.64" REL="nofollow">here</A>.)<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, earlier English translations (e.g., the 1384 Wycliffe, the 1395 Wycliffe, the 1534 Tyndale, the 1535 Coverdale, the 1540 Great, the 1549 Matthew, the 1568 Bishops', the 1582 Rheims, and the 1587 Geneva) did not include a textual footnote on this matter. Thus, the first Bible aspiring to scholarly presentation on this matter, at least, was the Authorized Version of 1611.Iyovhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16900943829679088001noreply@blogger.com