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Sunday, April 17, 2005

Welcome

Thank you for visiting the Better Bibles Blog. I hope you enjoy your time here. Feel free to look around. Your comments are invited.

English speakers are rich from having so many different English Bible versions which they can use. Most of them have many good wordings. But even good things can be improved. This blog was created to allow users to post concerns about specific wordings in English Bible versions. Please include the reference of a verse you are commenting on, and include the English wording you are concerned about. Feel free to suggest an improved wording, based on your understanding of English as written by native, fluent English speakers, and your understanding of what the wording (or its original biblical language source text) was intended to mean. Please post under the specific English Bible version you are commenting upon. Go to Versions in the right margin and click on the name of the version you want.

Please do not make generalized comments about any English Bible version such as "This version is too literal" or "This version is too paraphrastic" or "This is the most accurate version." Instead, please note specific wording problems and suggest improvements.

This blog is meant to be a positive contribution to discussion of English Bible versions. Besides posting concerns about English quality, you may also post comments about wordings which you believe are not as accurate as they should be. If you do address accuracy issues, please be sure that you have studied the issue in as scholarly manner as possible, so that you are not simply stating an opinion about accuracy, but, rather, are basing your comments on the facts of the Biblical languages and careful exegesis.

Comments about English quality can be about a translation wording which you do not understand (or which you think many other English speakers would not understand), or which is awkward, obsolete, convoluted, etc.

Our hope is that this blog can develop into a resource center which will be valuable to anyone concerned about English Bible translation.

Finally, we must emphasize that having a blog such as this in no way detracts from our gratefulness to English Bible translators who have worked hard, often sacrificially, to produce the English Bible versions which are critiqued here. Posting comments does not mean that a Bible version is bad; it only means that we see room for improvement. And most Bible translators want to improve their translations, because all translators recognize that no translation, including their own, is perfect.

And as we are grateful for the wealth of Bible translations we have for English, let us not forget the 3,000 language groups around the world who do not have any Bible translations in their language. Wouldn't it be wonderful if more of the resources spent producing more English Bibles would be directed toward translating for Bibleless peoples?

15 Comments:

At Fri May 20, 02:39:00 PM, Anonymous J. J. said...

Peter Kirby mentioned your site on his Christian Origins blog. It's awesome to see all the work you've done here. It seems like you'd definitely be interested in some of the scripture resources I'm trying to develop and contribute to. I'd really appreciate your input relating to my Theowiki request; basically, I'm hoping to cut down on the amount of redundant research done on the web and come up with an extensive and easy to use website.

I look forward to participating in your 5-5 contest!

 
At Tue May 02, 05:43:00 PM, Blogger Sid Williams said...

I have translated some of the OT without vowel-points. History recorded no vowels in Hebrew. The encyclopedia still identies Hebrew with 22 consonants. The vowels have corrupted the Bible, the KJV having many Hebrew words with 25 or more definitions. We have "A 'Real Words' Bible Edition"; with the "5 names of God formerly banned" all identified.
Sid Williams
sidwms@peahnet.net

 
At Tue May 02, 05:48:00 PM, Blogger Sid Williams said...

There is no name, "Christ." This has been taught for centuries to be transliteration; removing the letter "os" from "Christos"; and putting "Christ" in untranslated.
Iesous taught, "in My name." This name, "Iesous" is all over the web today. But it is only in Interlinear Bibles.
Sid Williams
sidwms@peaknet.net

 
At Fri Mar 30, 09:05:00 PM, Blogger lollipop82205 said...

I was told and read it in my NIV Bible that God is not mentioned in the book of Esther. But a friend told me that in her KJV Bible God is mentioned in Esther. Since I didn't find God's name in Esther when i read both versions i am going to assume she was wrong. If someone could help me research this. I would appreciate it.

 
At Fri Mar 30, 10:32:00 PM, Blogger Wayne Leman said...

I was told and read it in my NIV Bible that God is not mentioned in the book of Esther. But a friend told me that in her KJV Bible God is mentioned in Esther. Since I didn't find God's name in Esther when i read both versions i am going to assume she was wrong. If someone could help me research this. I would appreciate it.

You're right: God is not mentioned at all in any translation of the book of Esther. God's help for Esther to help her save her people seems clear, but God is not specifically mentioned doing that.

 
At Sat Mar 31, 11:20:00 AM, Blogger Peter Kirk said...

Lollipop, it is worth mentioning that the name of God is mentioned in the Septuagint version of Esther, the ancient Greek translation of the Old Testament, which contains some significant additions to Esther. These additions are included in one way or another in modern editions of the Bible including the Apocrypha or Deuterocanonical books; for example, in my NRSV Esther appears twice, once translated from Hebrew and once from the Septaugint. I don't know if the additional passages are included in editions of KJV with the Apocrypha, and if so in what form. But it is possible that your friend found the name of God in the additions to Esther in KJV.

Wayne, are you sure that "God is not mentioned at all in any translation of the book of Esther"? In 4:14 TEV/GNT reads "... help will come from heaven to the Jews ...". I think it would be a reasonable meaning-based translation to put "God" there, and I would be surprised if no one has done this.

 
At Sat Mar 31, 11:49:00 AM, Blogger Wayne Leman said...

Wayne, are you sure that "God is not mentioned at all in any translation of the book of Esther"? In 4:14 TEV/GNT reads "... help will come from heaven to the Jews ...". I think it would be a reasonable meaning-based translation to put "God" there, and I would be surprised if no one has done this

I have checked them all, Peter, and none of them included "God." The closest that I have found is this translation from the NET Bible:

“Don’t imagine that because you are part of the king’s household you will be the one Jew who will escape. If you keep quiet at this time, liberation and protection for the Jews will appear from another source, while you and your father’s household perish. It may very well bed that you have achieved royal statuse for such a time as this!”

where its footnote on "from another source says":

Heb “place” (so KJV, NIV, NLT); NRSV “from another quarter.” This is probably an oblique reference to help coming from God. D. J. A. Clines disagrees; in his view a contrast between deliverance by Esther and deliverance by God is inappropriate (Ezra, Nehemiah, Esther [NCBC], 302). But Clines’ suggestion that perhaps the reference is to deliverance by Jewish officials or by armed Jewish revolt is less attractive than seeing this veiled reference as part of the literary strategy of the book, which deliberately keeps God’s providential dealings entirely in the background.

 
At Sat Mar 31, 02:12:00 PM, Blogger Peter Kirk said...

Wayne, you can't mean that you have checked every translation of Esther into every language of the world! Nor, very probably, every translation into English. Indeed, it is clearly not true of the NETS version of Esther, which has "God" at 2:20, 6:13 etc (and that is ignoring occurrences in the "additions"), for the simple reason that it was translated from the Septuagint.

 
At Sat Mar 31, 02:22:00 PM, Blogger Wayne Leman said...

Peter responded:

Wayne, you can't mean that you have checked every translation of Esther into every language of the world!

No, I understood your previous statement:

I think it would be a reasonable meaning-based translation to put "God" there, and I would be surprised if no one has done this

to refer to meaning-based translations in English. I checked all those which I had available on my compouter, as well as formal equivalent translations on my computer.

Sorry if I misunderstood you.

 
At Wed May 23, 01:47:00 PM, Blogger Daniel Marsh said...

Dear Dan Sindlinger, may I have a printed copy of your bible translation free of charge? I am unemployed unable to find work -- conservative christian teacher trying to break into public or private schools. I am the care giver for family members -- my grandmother recently moved to heaven. I am battling cancer, degenerative bone disease and gout. God is working out II Peter 1, making one's salvation sure in my life. Online and off, I have been encountering people in false religions, trying to share our Lord with them. Online I am dealing with a "Christian Yahwist" who denies the deity of Christ, denies his physical resurrection, and denies hell. http://p067.ezboard.com/fthetruth11187frm2



I am hoping that your ministry will help me get the following books to use for bible study free of charge. I attend house churches for those with medical needs which can not attend a normal church congregational setting.



Thank You



Daniel Marsh
6539 Linville Drive
Brighton, MI 48116-9531 USA



P.S. here is the list of tools I am asking God for,


Any good exegetical bible commentaries,


Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, Volummes 1-15 set Edited By: G. Johannes Botterweck, Helmer Ringgren, Heinz-Josef Fabry



Theological Lexicon Set of the New Testament Edited By: Ceslas Spicq



Analytical Key to the Old Testament on CD-ROM or 4 volume set By: John Joseph Owens



Theological Lexicon of the Old Testament Biddle, Mark E.; Jenni, Ernst



14 Volume Set of the Soncino Bible



Hebrew Grammar



The Complete Parallel Bible with the Apocryphal / Deuterocanonical Books



Ancient Traditions of the Virgin Mary's Dormition and Assumption by Shoemaker, Stephen



The Lord's Anointed: Interpretation of Old Testament Messianic Textsedited by R.S. Hess, G.J. Wenham, P.E. Satterhwaite eds

New Interpreter's Study Bible Hardcover New Revised Standard Version with Apocrypha


International Critical Commentary Series CD-ROM - T&T Clark Int'l (53 Volumes)
http://www.logos.com/products/details/1906

Ancient Near Eastern Thought & the Old Testament - Introducing the Conceptual World of the Hebrew Bible
by John H Walton

A Translation of the Old Testament Scriptures from the Original Hebrew by Helen Spurrell

The Old Testament Canon of the the New Testament church by Roger Beckwith

Greek Lexicon Liddell Scott

 
At Wed May 23, 01:48:00 PM, Blogger Daniel Marsh said...

Dear Dan Sindlinger, may I have a printed copy of your bible translation free of charge? I am unemployed unable to find work -- conservative christian teacher trying to break into public or private schools. I am the care giver for family members -- my grandmother recently moved to heaven. I am battling cancer, degenerative bone disease and gout. God is working out II Peter 1, making one's salvation sure in my life. Online and off, I have been encountering people in false religions, trying to share our Lord with them. Online I am dealing with a "Christian Yahwist" who denies the deity of Christ, denies his physical resurrection, and denies hell. http://p067.ezboard.com/fthetruth11187frm2



I am hoping that your ministry will help me get the following books to use for bible study free of charge. I attend house churches for those with medical needs which can not attend a normal church congregational setting.



Thank You



Daniel Marsh
6539 Linville Drive
Brighton, MI 48116-9531 USA



P.S. here is the list of tools I am asking God for,


Any good exegetical bible commentaries,


Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, Volummes 1-15 set Edited By: G. Johannes Botterweck, Helmer Ringgren, Heinz-Josef Fabry



Theological Lexicon Set of the New Testament Edited By: Ceslas Spicq



Analytical Key to the Old Testament on CD-ROM or 4 volume set By: John Joseph Owens



Theological Lexicon of the Old Testament Biddle, Mark E.; Jenni, Ernst



14 Volume Set of the Soncino Bible



Hebrew Grammar



The Complete Parallel Bible with the Apocryphal / Deuterocanonical Books



Ancient Traditions of the Virgin Mary's Dormition and Assumption by Shoemaker, Stephen



The Lord's Anointed: Interpretation of Old Testament Messianic Textsedited by R.S. Hess, G.J. Wenham, P.E. Satterhwaite eds

New Interpreter's Study Bible Hardcover New Revised Standard Version with Apocrypha


International Critical Commentary Series CD-ROM - T&T Clark Int'l (53 Volumes)
http://www.logos.com/products/details/1906

Ancient Near Eastern Thought & the Old Testament - Introducing the Conceptual World of the Hebrew Bible
by John H Walton

A Translation of the Old Testament Scriptures from the Original Hebrew by Helen Spurrell

The Old Testament Canon of the the New Testament church by Roger Beckwith

Greek Lexicon Liddell Scott

 
At Wed May 23, 01:48:00 PM, Blogger Daniel Marsh said...

Dear Dan Sindlinger, may I have a printed copy of your bible translation free of charge? I am unemployed unable to find work -- conservative christian teacher trying to break into public or private schools. I am the care giver for family members -- my grandmother recently moved to heaven. I am battling cancer, degenerative bone disease and gout. God is working out II Peter 1, making one's salvation sure in my life. Online and off, I have been encountering people in false religions, trying to share our Lord with them. Online I am dealing with a "Christian Yahwist" who denies the deity of Christ, denies his physical resurrection, and denies hell. http://p067.ezboard.com/fthetruth11187frm2



I am hoping that your ministry will help me get the following books to use for bible study free of charge. I attend house churches for those with medical needs which can not attend a normal church congregational setting.



Thank You



Daniel Marsh
6539 Linville Drive
Brighton, MI 48116-9531 USA



P.S. here is the list of tools I am asking God for,


Any good exegetical bible commentaries,


Theological Dictionary of the Old Testament, Volummes 1-15 set Edited By: G. Johannes Botterweck, Helmer Ringgren, Heinz-Josef Fabry



Theological Lexicon Set of the New Testament Edited By: Ceslas Spicq



Analytical Key to the Old Testament on CD-ROM or 4 volume set By: John Joseph Owens



Theological Lexicon of the Old Testament Biddle, Mark E.; Jenni, Ernst



14 Volume Set of the Soncino Bible



Hebrew Grammar



The Complete Parallel Bible with the Apocryphal / Deuterocanonical Books



Ancient Traditions of the Virgin Mary's Dormition and Assumption by Shoemaker, Stephen



The Lord's Anointed: Interpretation of Old Testament Messianic Textsedited by R.S. Hess, G.J. Wenham, P.E. Satterhwaite eds

New Interpreter's Study Bible Hardcover New Revised Standard Version with Apocrypha


International Critical Commentary Series CD-ROM - T&T Clark Int'l (53 Volumes)
http://www.logos.com/products/details/1906

Ancient Near Eastern Thought & the Old Testament - Introducing the Conceptual World of the Hebrew Bible
by John H Walton

A Translation of the Old Testament Scriptures from the Original Hebrew by Helen Spurrell

The Old Testament Canon of the the New Testament church by Roger Beckwith

Greek Lexicon Liddell Scott

 
At Sat May 26, 07:46:00 AM, Blogger Wayne Leman said...

Daniel, please email me privately to contact Dan Sindlinger with your request. My email address is: wayne-leman at netzero.com

 
At Sun Oct 26, 06:30:00 AM, Blogger the political junkie said...

I'm confused. Is your purpose to "improve" the Bible? Last I checked, it was already perfect.

 
At Sun Oct 26, 07:15:00 AM, Blogger Stan McCullars said...

the political junkie,
You stated: I'm confused.

Perhaps if you read the purpose statement for the blog you would NOT be confused.

Ideas for improving English Bible translations.

They are not trying to "improve" the Bible but rather English Bible translations.

You do see the difference.

 

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