WLBA 9: Geneva and Bishops'
Here are the verses relating to women in the Bishops' Bible and Geneva Bible along with the KJV.
Rom. 16:1 Phoebe
minister Bishops' Bible
servant Geneva
servant KJV
Rom. 16:2
hath suckoured many Bishops'
given hospitality unto many Geneva
succourer of many KJV
Rom. 16:7 Junia
well taken among the apostles Bishops'
notable among the apostles Geneva
of note among the apostles KJV
1 Cor. 11:10 - all
have power on her head
1 Tim. 2:12 - all
usurp authoritie
The translations for 1 Cor. 11:10 and 1 Tim. 2:12 are constant, indicating a reluctance to offer an interpretive rendering in the text but a preference to reserve it for the marginal notes.
However, Rom. 16 is more interesting. In Rom. 16:1 the KJV opted for the Geneva version, in verse 2 for the Bishops' Bible. In verse 7, the KJV opted for an ambiguous reading.
It is interesting to see that both the Bishops' Bible and the Geneva Bible did have some difficulty with Junia being an apostle. In light of this information, I feel that I should briefly reconsider the evidence for Junia being among the apostles. They are in the shortest summary form,
1. en plus the dative most commonly means "among" in Koine Greek
2. Crysostom, a native Greek speaker, considered Junia to be one of the apostles
3. The Latin Vulgate has "noble among the apostles"
4. The Greek Vamva versions reads unambiguously "among"
5. The Wallace - Burer hypothesis hangs by this thread,
However, Burer assserts that the idiom allows τόπος to be elided, in spite of the fact that there is only one instance of this in all Greek literature. This example is two and a half centuries after the text in Psalm of Solomon which Burer claims is a parallel. But we know that the idiom usually occured without the elision. The P Oxy. example is from a text composed in Greek and the example in Psalm of Solomon is a translation of a Hebrew or Aramaic original two and a half centuries earlier. There has been no proposal for understanding the phrase from Psalm of Solomon as a translation of a Hebrew original.
The other problem is that any proof showing that using an adjective with a genitive is inclusive has no bearing on whether the adjective is inclusive or exclusive when it occurs with en plus dative. That is, proving that A is green does not prove that B is red.
I find the various convolutions necessary to follow Burer's argument to be the strongest argument in favour of Junia being one of the apostles. I do not wish to draw any other conclusions as to women in ministry from this verse but would suggest that an ambiguous text at best is the only fair way to deal with the Greek. I believe that this has been a stumbling block for many translators.
There was a disagreement, Junia was force to cross-dress for several centuries to resolve the difficulty, she has been recognized as female once again, now what?
Rom. 16:1 Phoebe
minister Bishops' Bible
servant Geneva
servant KJV
Rom. 16:2
hath suckoured many Bishops'
given hospitality unto many Geneva
succourer of many KJV
Rom. 16:7 Junia
well taken among the apostles Bishops'
notable among the apostles Geneva
of note among the apostles KJV
1 Cor. 11:10 - all
have power on her head
1 Tim. 2:12 - all
usurp authoritie
The translations for 1 Cor. 11:10 and 1 Tim. 2:12 are constant, indicating a reluctance to offer an interpretive rendering in the text but a preference to reserve it for the marginal notes.
However, Rom. 16 is more interesting. In Rom. 16:1 the KJV opted for the Geneva version, in verse 2 for the Bishops' Bible. In verse 7, the KJV opted for an ambiguous reading.
It is interesting to see that both the Bishops' Bible and the Geneva Bible did have some difficulty with Junia being an apostle. In light of this information, I feel that I should briefly reconsider the evidence for Junia being among the apostles. They are in the shortest summary form,
1. en plus the dative most commonly means "among" in Koine Greek
2. Crysostom, a native Greek speaker, considered Junia to be one of the apostles
3. The Latin Vulgate has "noble among the apostles"
4. The Greek Vamva versions reads unambiguously "among"
5. The Wallace - Burer hypothesis hangs by this thread,
- P.Oxy. 1408 speaks of “the most important [places] of the nomes” (τοῖς ἐπισημοτάτοις τῶν νομῶν). [Ed. - A “nome” was a province in Egypt.] In this text that which is ἐπίσημος is a part of the nome; the genitive is used to indicate this. On two other occasions this same idiom occurs, each time with a genitive modifier: τοῖς ἐπισημοτάτοις τόποις τ[ῶ]ν κωμ[ῶν] (“the most conspicuous places in the villages”) in P. Oxy. 2108 and τ[οῖς ἐπι]σήμοις τοῦ νομοῦ τόποις (“the well-known places of the nome”) in P. Oxy. 2705. In each of these instances, that which is ἐπίσημος is compared to its environment with a partitive genitive; it is a part of the entity to which it is being compared. This was a sufficiently common idiom (though occurring only these three times in the Oxyrhynchus papyri) that the editors conjecture the reading in the lacuna at P. Oxy. 3364, line 22: [τ]ῆς ἐπιστολῆς τὸ ἀντίγραφον ἔν τε ταῖς π[όλεσι καὶ ἐν τοῖς ἐπισήμοις τῶν νομῶν τόποις ([Place] “the copy of the letter in the c[ities and in the public places of the nomes]”).
The phrase in P.Oxy. 1408 is governed by ἐν, and the word τόποις is not in the text of the papyrus (although the editors do suggest that its omission was a mistake on the part of the original author of the papyrus); this is a nice parallel to the text in Ps. Sol. 17:30. Thus there appeared to be an idiom in Hellenistic Greek which allowed the adjective ἐπίσημος when it referred to a place to stand alone, the noun τόπος being elided.
However, Burer assserts that the idiom allows τόπος to be elided, in spite of the fact that there is only one instance of this in all Greek literature. This example is two and a half centuries after the text in Psalm of Solomon which Burer claims is a parallel. But we know that the idiom usually occured without the elision. The P Oxy. example is from a text composed in Greek and the example in Psalm of Solomon is a translation of a Hebrew or Aramaic original two and a half centuries earlier. There has been no proposal for understanding the phrase from Psalm of Solomon as a translation of a Hebrew original.
The other problem is that any proof showing that using an adjective with a genitive is inclusive has no bearing on whether the adjective is inclusive or exclusive when it occurs with en plus dative. That is, proving that A is green does not prove that B is red.
I find the various convolutions necessary to follow Burer's argument to be the strongest argument in favour of Junia being one of the apostles. I do not wish to draw any other conclusions as to women in ministry from this verse but would suggest that an ambiguous text at best is the only fair way to deal with the Greek. I believe that this has been a stumbling block for many translators.
There was a disagreement, Junia was force to cross-dress for several centuries to resolve the difficulty, she has been recognized as female once again, now what?
posted by Suzanne McCarthy at 9:22 PM
8 Comments:
I am interested to see that "usurp authoritie" was in the Geneva Bible for 1 Timothy 2:12. Far from being a novel interpretation in TNIV as Grudem claims, this seems to have been the accepted understanding of authentein in the 16th century, even in the Calvinists' beloved Geneva. There seem to be no note on this phrase, either here or here.
Ah, there are notes on this verse -- here is the Book with notes:
Full Text
Geneva Bible, 1587
Biblical text
The New Testament
THE FIRST EPISTLE OF PAVL TO TIMOTHEVS.
THE FIRST EPISTLE OF PAVL TO TIMOTHEVS.
[Of the idle.]
CHAP. I.
Setting forth a perfect patterne of a true Pastour, whose office especially consisteth in teaching, 4 he warneth him, that vaine questions set apart, hee teach those things, 5 which further charitie and faith: 12 and that his authoritie be no: condemned, 14 he sheweth what an one he is made through the grace of God.
1 Pavl [Note: [1] 1 First of all, he auoucheth his own free vocation and also Timothies, yt the one might be confirmed by the other: and therewithall he declareth the summe of the Apostolicall doctrine, to wit, the mercie of God in Christ Iesus apprehended by faith, the ende whereof is yet hoped for. ] an Apostle of Iesvs Christ, by the [Note: Or, ordinance. ] commaundement of God our Sauiour, and of our Lord Iesus Christ our hope,
2 Vnto Timotheus my naturall sonne in the faith: Grace, [Note: [a] There is as much difference betwixt mercie and grace, as is betwixt the effect, and the cause: For grace is that free good will of God, whereby hee chose vs in Christ, and mercy is that free iustification which foloweth it. ] mercy, and peace from God our Father, and from Christ Iesus our Lord.
3 [Note: [2] This whole Epistle consisteth in admonitions, wherein all dueties of a faithfull Pastour are liuely set out. And the first admonition is this, that no innouation be made either in the Apostles doctrine it selfe, or in the maner of teaching it. ] As I besought thee to abide still in Ephesus, when I departed into Macedonia, so doe, that thou mayest warne some, that they teach none other doctrine,
4 [Note: [3] The doctrine is corrupted not onely by false opinions, but also by vaine and curious speculations: the declaration and vtterance whereof can nothing helpe our faith. ] Neither that they giue heede to fables and [Note: [b] Hee noteth out one kinde of vaine questions. ] genealogies which are endles, which breede questions rather then godly edifying which is by fayth.
5 [Note: [4] The second admonition is, that the right vse and practise of the doctrine must be ioyned with the doctrine. And that consisteth in pure charitie, & a good conscience, & true faith. ] For [Note: Rom.13.10. ] the end of the [Note: [c] Of the Law. ] commaundement
[The end of the Lawe.]
is [Note: [d] There is neither loue without a good conscience, nor a good conscience without faith, nor faith without the worde of God. ] loue out of a pure heart, and of a good conscience, and of faith vnfained.
6 [Note: [5] That which he spake before generally of vaine and curious controuersies, he applieth to them which pretending a zeale of the Lawe, dwelled vpon outwarde things, and neuer made an ende of babbling of foolish trifles. ] From the which things some haue erred, and haue turned vnto vaine iangling.
7 [Note: [6] There are none more vnlearned, and more impudent in vsurping the name of holines, the foolish sophistical bablers. ] They would be doctours of the Law, and yet vnderstande not what they speake, neither whereof they affirme.
8 [Note: [7] The taking away of an obiection: He condemneth not the Law, but requireth the right vse & practise of it. ] And we knowe, that the Law is good, if a man vse it lawfully,
9 [Note: [8] He in deede escapeth the curse of the Law, and therefore doeth not abhorre it, who fleeing & eschewing those things which the Law condemneth, giueth himselfe wt all his heart, to obserue it: and not he that maketh a vaine babbling of outward and curious matters. ] Knowing this, that the Lawe is not giuen vnto a [Note: [e] And such a one is he, whom the Lord hath indued with true doctrine, and with the holy Ghost. ] righteous man, but vnto the lawles and disobedient, to the vngodly, and to [Note: [f] To such as make an arte as it were of sinning. ] sinners, to the vnholy, and to the prophane, to murtherers of fathers and mothers, to manslayers,
10 To whoremongers, to buggerers, to menstealers, to lyers, to the periured, and if there be any other thing, that is contrary to wholesome doctrine,
11 [Note: [9] He setteth against fond & vaine babbling, not only the Law, but the Gospel also, which condemneth not but greatly commendeth the wholesome doctrine conteined in the comandements of God, and therfore he calleth it a glorious Gospel, & the Gospel of the blessed God, the vertue whereof these babblers knew not. ] Which is according to the glorious Gospel of the blessed God, [Note: [10] A reason why neither any other Gospel is to be taught then he hath taught in the Church neither after any other sort, because there is no other Gospel beside that, which God comitted to him. ] which is committed vnto me.
[Page 93]
[Christ came to saue sinners.]
12 [Note: [11] He mainteineth of necessitie his Apostleship against some that did carpe at his former life, debasing himselfe euen to hell, to aduance Christes only mercie, wherewith he abolished all those his former doings. ] Therefore I thanke him, which hath made me [Note: [g] Which gaue me strength, not onely when I had no will to doe well, but also when I was wholie giuen to euill. ] strong, that is, Christ Iesus our Lord: for he counted me faithfull, and put me in his seruice:
13 When before I was a [Note: [h] These are the preparative workes which Paul braggeth of. ] blasphemer, and a persecuter, and an oppresser: but I was receiued to mercie: for I did it ignorantly through vnbeliefe.
14 But the grace of our Lord was exceeding abundant [Note: [12] He proueth this change by the effectes, for that, that he that was a prophane man, is become a beleeuer: and he that did most outragiously persecute Christ, burneth nowe in loue towards him. ] with faith and loue, which is in Christ Iesus.
15 [Note: [13] He turneth the reproche of the aduersaries vpon their owne head, shewing that this singular example of the goodnesse of God, redoundeth to the commoditie of the whole Church. ] This is a [Note: [i] Worthy to be beleeued. ] true saying, and by all meanes worthy to be receiued, that [Note: Matth.9.13. mark.2.17. ] Christ Iesus came into the worlde to saue sinners, of whom I am chiefe.
16 Notwithstanding, for this cause was I receiued to mercie, that Iesus Christ should first shewe on me all long suffering vnto the ensample of them, which shall in time to come beleeue in him vnto eternall life.
17 [Note: [14] He breaketh out into an exclamation, euen for very zeale of mind, for that he cannot satisfie himselfe in amplifying the grace of God. ] Nowe vnto the King euerlasting, immortall, inuisible, vnto God [Note: [k] Looke Iohn 17.3. ] onely wise, be honour and glorie, for euer, and euer, Amen.
18 [Note: [15] The conclusion of both the former fatherly admonitions, so wit, that Timothie striuing manfully against all lettes, being called to the ministerie according to many prophecies which went before of him, should both mainteine the doctrine which he had receiued, and keepe also a good conscience. ] This commaundement commit I vnto thee, sonne Timotheus, according to the prophecies, which went before vpon thee, that thou [Note: [l] By the helpe of them. ] by them shouldest fight a good fight,
19 Hauing [Note: [m] Wholsome and sound doctrine. ] faith and a good conscience, [Note: [16] Whosoeuer keepe not a good conscience, do lose also by litle and litle, ye gift of vnderstanding: which he proueth by two most lamentable examples. ] which some haue put away, and as concerning faith, haue made shipwracke.
20 Of whom is Hymeneus, and Alexander, [Note: 1.Cor. 5.5. ] [Note: [17] Such as fall from God, and his religion, are not to be suffered in the Church, but rather ought to be excommunicated. ] whom I haue [Note: [n] Cast out of the Church, and so deliuered them to Satan. ] deliuered vnto Satan, that they might [Note: [o] That by their smart they might learne what it is to blaspheme. ] learne not to blaspheme.
CHAP. II.
1 He exhorteth them to make publike prayers for all men, 4. 5 and that for two causes: 8 And therefore he willeth all men in all places to pray, 9 And declareth in what apparel, 11 and with what modestie, women ought to behaue themselues in holy assemblies.
1 I [Note: [1] Hauing dispatched those things which perteine to doctrine, he speaketh nowe in the second place of the other part of the ministerie of the worde, to wit, of publike prayers. And first of all, declaring this question, for whom we ought to pray: he teacheth that we must pray for all men, and especially, for all maner of magistrates, which thing was at that time somewhat doubted of, seeing that kings, yea and the most part of magistrates were at that time enemies of the Church. ] Exhort therefore, that first of all supplications, prayers, intercessions, and giuing of thanks be made for all men,
2 For Kings, and for all that are in authoritie, [Note: [2] An argument taken of the ende: to wit, because that Magistrates are appointed to this ende, that men might peaceably and quietly liue in all godlinesse and honestie, and therefore must we commend them especially to God, that they may faithfully execute so necessarie an office. ] that we may leade a quiet and a peaceable life, in all godlinesse and [Note: [a] This worde conteineth all kinde of duetie, which is to be vsed amongst men in all their affaires. ] honestie.
3 [Note: [3] An other argument, why Churches or Congregations ought to pray for all men, without any difference of nation, kinde, age, or order: to wit, because the Lord by calling of all sortes, yea sometime those that are greatest enemies to the Gospel, will haue his Church gathered together after this sort, and therefore prayers to be made for all. ] For this is good & acceptable in the sight of God our Sauiour,
4 Who will that all men shalbe saued, and come vnto the acknowledging of the trueth.
[Womens modestie.]
5 [Note: [4] God should not els be manifested to be the onely God of all men, vnlesse he should shewe his goodnesse in sauing of all sortes of men; neither shoulde Christ be seene to be the onely Mediatour betweene God and all sortes of men, by hauing taken vpon him that nature of man which is common to all men, vnlesse he had satisfied for all sortes of men, and made intercession for all. ] For there is one God, and one Mediatour betweene God and man, which is the [Note: [b] Christ Iesus which was made man. ] man Christ Iesus,
6 Who gaue himselfe a ransome for all men, [Note: [5] A confirmation, because that euen to the Gentiles is the secret of saluation nowe opened and made manifest, the Apostle him selfe being appointed properly to this office, which he doeth faithfully and syncerely execute. ] to be that testimonie in due time,
7 [Note: 2.Tim.1.11. ] Whereunto I am ordeined a preacher and an Apostle (I speake the trueth in Christ, and lie not) euen a teacher of the Gentiles in [Note: [c] Faithfully and syncerely: and by faith he meaneth wholsome & sound doctrine, and by trueth, an vpright and syncere handling of it. ] faith and veritie.
8 [Note: [6] He hath spoken of the persons for whom we must pray: and nowe he teacheth that the difference of places is taken away: for in times past, one onely nation, & in one certaine place, came together to publike seruice: but nowe Churches or Congregations are gathered together euery where, (orderly and decently) and men come together to serue God publikely with common prayer, neither must we striue for the nation, or for the purification of the body, or for the place, but for the minde to haue it cleane from all offence, & full of sure trust & confidence. ] I will therefore that the men pray, euery where [Note: [d] He putteth the signe for the thing it selfe, the lifting vp of hands for the calling vpon God. ] lifting vp pure hands without [Note: [e] Without these griefes and offences of the mind, which hinder vs from calling vpon God with a good conscience. ] wrath, or [Note: [f] Doubting which is against faith, Iames 16. ] douting.
9 [Note: 1.Pet.3.3. ] [Note: [7] Thirdly he appointeth women to learne in the publike assemblies with silence and modestie, being comely apparelled, without any riot or excesse in their apparell. ] Likewise also the women, that they aray themselues in comely apparell, with shamefastnes and modestie, not with broyded heare, or gold, or pearles, or costly apparell,
10 But (as becommeth women that professe the feare of God) with good workes.
11 Let the woman learne in silence with all subiection.
12 [Note: 1.Cor 14.34. ] I permit not a woman to teache, [Note: [8] The first argument, why it is not lawfull for women to teache in the Congregation, because by this meanes, they should be placed aboue men, for they should be their masters: which is against Gods ordinance. ] neither to vsurpe authoritie ouer the man, but to be in silence.
13 [Note: [9] He proueth this ordinance of God, whereby the woman is subiect to man, first by that, that God made the woman after man, for mans sake. ] For [Note: Gene.1.27. and 2.7,21. ] Adam was first formed, then Eue.
14 [Note: Gen.3.6. ] [Note: [10] Then, because that after sinne, God inioyned the woman this punishment, for that the man was deceiued by her. ] And Adam was not [Note: [g] Adam was deceiued, but through his wiues meanes, and therefore she is worthily for this cause subiect to her husband, and ought to be. ] deceiued, but the woman was deceiued, and was in the transgression.
15 [Note: [11] He addeth a comfort by the way, that this their subiection hindreth not but that women may be saued as well as men, if they behaue themselues in those burdens of mariage holily and modestly, with faith and charitie. ] Notwithstanding, through bearing of children she shalbe saued if they continue in faith, and loue, and holines with modestie.
CHAP. III.
2 He setteth out Bishops, 8 and Christian Deacons, with their wiues, 12 children and familie: 15 he calleth the Church the house of God.
1 This [Note: [1] Hauing dispatched the treatise, as well of doctrine and of the maner of handling of it, as also of publike prayer, he nowe in the third place commeth to the persons themselues, speaking first of Pastours, and afterward of Deacons, and he vseth a preface, that the Church may knowe that these be certeine and sure rules. ] is a true saying, [Note: [2] A bishopricke or the ministerie of the worde is not an idle dignitie, but a worke, and that an excellent worke: and therefore a Bishop must be furnished with many vertues both at home and abroade. Wherefore it is requisite before he be chosen, to examine well his learning, his giftes, and ablenes, and his life. ] If any man [Note: [a] He speaketh not here of ambitious seeking, then the which there cannot be a worse fault in the Church but generally of the minde and disposition of man, framed and disposed to helpe and edifie the Church of God, when and wheresoeuer it shall please the Lord. ] desire the office of a Bishop, he desireth a worthie worke.
2 [Note: Titus 2.6. ] A Bishop therefore must be vnreproueable, the husband of [Note: [b] Therefore he that shutteth out married men from the office of Bishops, onely because they are married, is Antichrist. ] one wife, watching, temperate, [Page]
[The great mysterie.]
modest, harberous, apt to teache,
3 Not [Note: [c] A common tipler, and one that wil sit by it. ] giuen to wine, no striker, not giuen to filthy lucre, but gentle, no fighter, not couetous,
4 One yt can rule his owne house honestly, hauing children vnder obedience wt all honestie.
5 For if any cannot rule his owne house, how shall he care for the Church of God?
6 He may not be a yong scholer, lest he being puffed vp fall into the [Note: [d] Lest by reason that he is aduanced to that degree, he take occasion to be proud, which will vndoe him, and so he fall into the same condemnation that the deuill himselfe is fallen into. ] condemnation of the deuill.
7 He must also be well reported of, euen of them which are without, lest he fall into rebuke, and the snare of the deuill.
8 [Note: [3] Likewise the Deacons must first be proued, that there may be a good tryall of their honestie, trueth, sobrietie, minde voide of couetousnesse, that they are well instructed in the doctrine of faith, and to be short, of their good conscience and integritie. ] Likewise must [Note: [e] These are they that had to see to the poore. ] Deacons be graue, not double tongued, not giuen vnto much wine, neither to filthy lucre,
9 [Note: Chap.1.19. ] Hauing the [Note: [f] The doctrine of the Gospel, which is a mysterie in deede: for flesh and blood doe not reueile it. ] mysterie of the faith in pure conscience.
10 And let them first be proued: then let them minister, if they be found blameles.
11 [Note: [4] Regard must be had also, to the Pastours and Deacons wiues. ] Likewise their wiues must be honest, not euill speakers, but sober, and faithfull in all things.
12 [Note: [5] They that haue more wiues then one, at one time, must neither be called to be ministers, nor to be Deacons. ] Let the Deacons be the husbands of one wife, and such as can rule their children well, and their owne housholdes.
13 For they that haue ministred well, get them selues a good [Note: [g] Honour and estimation. ] degree, and [Note: [h] Bold and assured confidence without feare. ] great libertie in the faith, which is in Christ Iesus.
14 [Note: [6] Paul purposing to adde many peculiar things perteining to the dayly office of a Pastour, speaketh first a word or two concerning his comming to Timothie, that he should be so much the more carefull, lest at his comming he might be reproued of negligence. ] These things write I vnto thee, trusting to come very shortly vnto thee.
15 But if I tary long, yt thou maist yet know, how thou oughtest to behaue thy self in ye [Note: [7] The Pastour hath alwayes to thinke, howe that he is occupied in the house of the liuing God, wherein the treasure of the trueth is kept. ] house of God, which is the Church of the liuing God, the [Note: [i] To wit, in respect of men: for the Church resteth vpon that corner stone, Christ, and is the preseruer of the trueth, but not the mother. ] pillar and ground of trueth.
16 [Note: [8] There is nothing more excellent then this trueth, whereof the Church is the keeper and preseruer here amongst men, the ministerie of the word being appointed to that ende and purpose: for it teacheth vs the greatest matters that may be thought of, to wit, that God is become visible in the person of Christ by taking our nature vpon him, whose Maiestie notwithstanding in so great weakenes was manifested many waies, in so much that the sight of it pearced the very Angels, and to conclude, he being preached vnto the Gentiles was receiued of them, and is nowe placed aboue in glory vnspeakeable. ] And without controuersie, great is the mysterie of godlinesse, which is, God is manifested in the flesh, [Note: [k] The power of the Godhead shewed it selfe so marueilously in that weake flesh of Christ, that though he were a weake man, yet all the worlde knoweth he was and is God. ] iustified in the Spirit, seene of Angels, preached vnto the Gentiles, beleeued on in the world, and receiued vp in glorie.
CHAP. IIII.
1 He condemneth aswell false doctrines 3 of mariage and the choise of meates, 7 as also prophane fables: 8 And commendeth the Godly exercise, 13 and the dayly reading of the Scripture.
1 Nowe [Note: [1] He setteth against that true doctrine, false opinions, which he foretelleth that certaine which shall fall away from God and his religion, shal bring in by the suggestion of Satan, and so, that a great nomber shall giue eare to them. ] the Spirit speaketh euidently, that in the latter times some shall depart from the [Note: [a] From the true doctrine of God. ] faith, and shall giue heede vnto spirits of errour, and doctrines of deuils,
2 [Note: [2] Although heretikes counterfet holines neuer so much, yet haue they no conscience. ] Which speake lies through [Note: [b] For they will as it were practise the arte of disguised persons and players, that we may not thinke they will be lurking in some one corner, or keepe any resemblance of shamefastnes. ] hypocrisie, & haue their [Note: [c] Whose coscience waxed so hard, that there grew an hard fleshines ouer it, and so became to haue a canker in it, and now at length required of very necessitie to be burned with an hote yron. ] cosciences burned wt an hote yron,
[Godlinesse is profitable.]
3 [Note: [3] He setteth downe two kindes of this false doctrine, to wit, the Lawe of sole life, and difference of meates. ] Forbidding to marrie, and commanding to absteine from meates [Note: [4] He proueth that he iustly called such doctrines deuilish, first, because the teachers of them make lawes of things which are not their owne: for haue they created the meates? ] which God hath created [Note: [5] Secondly, because they ouerthrowe with their decrees, the ende wherefore they were created of God, to wit, that we shoulde vse them. ] to be receiued [Note: [6] Thirdly, for that by this meanes they robbe God of his glorie, who will be honoured in the vse of them. And here withall, the Apostle declareth that we must vse the liberalitie of God, soberly, and with a good conscience. ] with giuing thankes of them which beleeue and knowe the trueth.
4 [Note: [7] He setteth an Apostolicall rule, for taking away the difference of meates, against that false doctrine. ] For euery creature of God is good, and nothing ought to be refused, if it be receiued with thankesgiuing.
5 [Note: [8] He vseth Gods benefites rightly, which acknowledgeth the giuer of them by his worde, and calleth vpon him. ] For it is [Note: [d] It is so made pure and holy in respect of vs, so that we may vse it with a good conscience, as receiued at the Lordes hand. ] sanctified by the [Note: [e] Wee confesse and acknowledge that God is the maker and giuer of those creatures which we vse. Secondly, that we are of the nomber of those, who through Christes benefite, haue recouered that right ouer all creatures, which Adam lost by his fall. Thirdly, by our prayers we craue of the Lord, that we may vse those meates with a good conscience, which we receiue at his handes. Fourthly, we make an ende of our eating and drinking, with thankesgiuing and prayer: and so are our meates sanctified to vs. ] worde of God, and prayer.
6 [Note: [9] The conclusion with an exhortation to Timothie, to propound these thinges diligently to the Churches, which he had sucked of the Apostle euen in a maner from the teate. ] If thou put the brethren in remembrance of these things, thou shalt be a good minister of Iesus Christ, which hast bene nourished vp in the wordes of faith, and of good doctrine, which thou hast continually [Note: [f] Neuer departing from the side of it. ] followed.
7 [Note: [10] He setteth againe true doctrine not onely against that false and apostaticall doctrine, but also against all vaine and curious subtilties. ] But cast away prophane, and olde wiues fables, [Note: [11] It is not onely requisite that the Minister of the worde be founde in doctrine, but also that his life be godly and religious. ] and exercise thy selfe vnto [Note: [g] In the true seruing of God. ] godlinesse.
8 [Note: [12] Godlinesse consisteth in spirituall exercise, and not in outward austerenesse of life, which though it be something to be accounted of if it be rightly vsed, yet is it in no wise comparable with godlinesse. For it profiteth not of it selfe, but through the benefite of another, but this hath the promise both of the life present, and of that that is to come. ] For bodily exercise profiteth litle: but godlinesse is profitable vnto all things, which hath the promes of the life present, and of that that is to come.
9 [Note: [13] He goeth a litle from his matter, and sheweth that they which giue themselues to godlinesse, although they are afflicted and reproched, are notwithstanding not to be counted miserable as other men are, because they are not afflicted for that cause that other men are, and the ende of them both is farre different one from the other. For howe can God forsake his, which is bountifull euen towards his enemies? And he willeth that this doctrine be well beaten into their heads. ] This is a true saying, and by all meanes worthie to be receiued.
10 For therefore we labour and are rebuked, because we trust in the liuing God, which is the Sauiour of all men, specially of those that beleeue.
11 These things warne and teache.
12 [Note: [14] Nowe he returneth to that exhortation, shewing which are the true vertues of a Pastour, whereby he may come to be reuerenced although he be but young, to wit, such speache and life as are witnesses of charitie, zeale, faith, and puritie: but here is no mention made of the crosier staffe, ring, cloke, and such other foolish and childish toyes. ] Let no man despise thy youth, but be vnto them that beleeue, an ensample, in worde, in conuersation, in loue, in spirit, in faith, and in purenesse.
13 [Note: [15] The priuate exercise of Pastours, is continuall reading of the Scriptures, whenceout they may drawe matter of wholesome doctrine and exhortation, both to themselues and to other. ] Till I come, giue attendance to reading, to exhortation, and to doctrine.
14 Despise not the gift that is in thee, which was giuen thee by prophecie with the laying on of the hands of the companie of the Eldership.
15 These things exercise, and giue thy selfe vnto them, that it may be seene howe thou profitest among all men.
16 Take heede vnto thy selfe, and vnto learning: continue therein: for in doing this thou shalt both [Note: [h] Faith is by hearing, and hearing by preaching: and therefore the Ministers of the worde are so said to saue themselues and other, for that in them the Lord hath put the worde of reconciliation. ] saue thy selfe, & them that heare thee.
[Page 94]
[Of widowes and Elders.]
CHAP. V.
1 Hauing sette downe a maner howe to rebuke all degrees, 5 hee entreateth of widowes, who then were chosen for the seruice of the Church: 17 Then hee commeth to Elders, 23 and speaketh somewhat touching the health of the bodie.
1 Rebuke [Note: [1] Of keeping measure in priuate reprehensions according to the degrees of ages and kindes. ] not an Elder, but exhort him as a father, and the yonger men as brethren,
2 The elder women as mothers, the yonger as sisters, with all purenesse.
3 [Note: [2] The Apostle giueth these rules touching the care of widowes. ] [Note: [a] Haue care of those widowes which haue neede of helpe. ] Honour widowes, which are widowes in deede.
4 [Note: [3] Widowes children & nephewes must take care for their parents, according to their habilitie. ] But if any widowe haue children or nephewes, let them learne first to shewe godlinesse [Note: [4] The first reason, because that, that which they bestow vpon theirs, they bestowe it vpon themselues. ] towarde their owne house, and [Note: [5] An other, because nature it selfe teacheth vs to recompense our parents. ] to recompense their kinred: [Note: [6] The thirde: because this duetifulnes pleaseth God. ] for that is an honest thing and acceptable before God.
5 [Note: [7] The seconde rule: Let ye Church haue care of such as are widowes in deede, that is to say, such as are poore & destitute of helpe of their owne friendes, and liue godly and religiously. ] And shee that is a widowe in deede and left alone, trusteth in God, and continueth in supplications and praiers night and day.
6 [Note: [8] The third rule: Let widowes that liue in pleasure, & neglect the care of their owne family, bee holden and accompted as fallers away from God and his religion, and worse then very infidels. ] But shee that liueth in pleasure, is dead, while shee liueth.
7 These things therefore warne them of, that they may be blamelesse.
8 If there bee any that prouideth not for his owne, and namely for them of his housholde, hee denieth the faith, and is worse then an infidell.
9 [Note: [9] The fourth rule: Let none vnder three score yeere olde, bee taken into the number of widowes, to serue the Congregations or Churches, and such as are free from all reproche of vnchastitie, and are well reported of, for their diligence, charitie, and integritie. ] Let not a widow be taken into the number vnder three score yeere olde, that hath beene the wife of [Note: [b] That hath had no more husbandes, but one at one time. ] one husband,
10 And well reported of for good woorkes: if shee haue nourished her children, if shee haue lodged the strangers, if shee haue [Note: [c] This is spoken in respect of the maner of those countries. ] washed the Saintes feete, if shee haue ministred vnto them which were in aduersitie, if shee were continually giuen vnto euery good woorke.
11 [Note: [10] The first reason why yonger widowes are not to bee admitted to this ministerie, to witte, because for the lightnesse of their age, they will at length shake off the burden that Christ hath laide vpon them, and thinke rather vpon marying againe: and so will forsake the ministerie whereunto they had bounde them selues. ] But [Note: [d] Take them not into the colledge of widowes. ] refuse the yonger widowes: for when they haue begun to waxe wanton against Christ, they will marrie,
12 Hauing damnation, because they haue broken the first faith.
13 [Note: [11] An other reason: because they are for the most part pratlers and busie bodies, and gadders vp and downe neglecting their charge and duetie. ] And likewise also being idle they learne to goe about from house to house: yea, they are not onely ydle, but also pratlers and busibodies, speaking things which are not comely.
14 [Note: [12] The fifth rule: Let yonger widowes marie and gouerne their houses godly. ] I will therefore that the yonger women marie, and beare children, and gouerne the house, and giue none occasion to the aduersary to speake euill.
15 For certaine are alreadie turned backe after Satan.
16 [Note: [13] The sixth rule: Let the faithfull helpe their widowes at their owne charges as much as they can, and let not the Congregation be burdened with these expenses. ] If any faithfull man, or faithfull woman haue widowes, let them minister vnto them, and let not the Church bee charged, that there
[Pauls charge to Timothie.]
may bee sufficient for them that are widowes in deede.
17 ¶ [Note: [14] Nowe hee giueth rules, and sheweth howe hee ought to behaue himselfe with the Elders, that is to say, with the Pastours and such as haue the gouernance in the discipline of the Church, which is president of their companie. The first rule: Let the Church or Congregation see vnto this especiallie, as God himselfe hath commaunded, that the Elders that doe their duetie well, be honestly mainteined. ] The Elders that rule well, let them be had in [Note: [e] Wee must bee more carefull for them, then for the rest. ] double honour, [Note: [f] There were two kindes of Elders, the one attended vpon the gouernement onely, and looked to the maners of the Congregation, the other did beside that, attende vpon preaching and prayers, to and for the Congregation. ] specially they which labour in the worde and doctrine,
18 For the Scripture sayeth, [Note: Deuter.25.4. 1.corinth.9.9. ] Thou shalt not mousell the mouth of the oxe that treadeth out the corne: and, [Note: Matth.10.10. luke 10.7. ] The labourer is worthie of his wages.
19 [Note: [15] The seconde rule. Let no accusation bee admitted against an Elder, but vnder two or three witnesses. ] Against an Elder receiue none accusation, but vnder two or three witnesses.
20 [Note: [16] The thirde rule. Let the Elders so conuicted bee rebuked openly, that they may bee an example to other. ] Them that sinne, rebuke openly, that the rest also may feare.
21 ¶ [Note: Chapter 6.13. ] [Note: [17] The fourth rule. Let sinceritie bee vsed without any preiudice of respect of persons in Ecclesiasticall proceedings (especially against the Elders) because God himselfe is there present, and the Lord Iesus Christ with a multitude of Angels. ] I charge thee before God & the Lord Iesus Christ, and the elect Angels, that thou obserue these thinges without preferring one to an other, and doe nothing partially.
22 [Note: [18] The fift rule. Let the minister laie handes suddenlie on no man. Let him not bee faultie herein either by sauouring any mans follie, or peruerse affection: If ought bee done otherwise then well of his fellowes, let him keepe his conscience pure. ] Lay handes [Note: [g] As much as in thee lieth doe not rashly admit any whatsoeuer, to any Ecclesiasticall function. ] suddenly on no man, neither be partaker of other mens sinnes: keepe thy selfe pure.
23 [Note: [19] The sixt rule. Let the Elders haue indifferent consideration of their health, in the maner of their diet. ] Drinke no longer water, but vse a litle wine for thy stomakes sake, and thine often infirmities.
24 [Note: [20] Because hypocrites sometimes creepe into the ministerie, although there bee neuer so great diligence vsed, the Apostle willeth the Pastours not to bee troubled therefore, or slake any whitte of their diligence in trying and examining, because the Lorde hath appointed a time to discouer the faultes of such men, and it is our partes to take heede that we offende not therein. ] Some mens sinnes are open before hand, and goe before vnto iudgement: but some mens folowe after.
25 [Note: [21] Another comfort belonging to them, which sometimes are slaundered and misreported of. ] Likewise also the good woorkes are manifest before hande, and they that are otherwise, can not be hid.
CHAP. VI.
1 He sheweth the duetie of seruants: 10 and what a mischieuous euill couetousnesse is: 13 and hauing spoken somewhat of rich men, hee once againe forbiddeth Timothie 20 to comber himselfe with vaine babblings.
1 Let [Note: [1] Hee addeth also rules for the seruauntes duetie towardes their masters: whereupon no doubt there were many questions then mooued by them, which tooke occasion by the Gospell to trouble the common state. And this is the first rule: Let seruauntes that are come to the faith and haue infidels to their masters, serue them notwithstanding with great fidelitie. ] as many seruaunts as are vnder the yoke, count their masters worthie of all honour, [Note: [2] The reason: lest God shoulde seeme by the doctrine of the Gospell to stirre vp men to rebellion and all wickednesse. ] that the Name of God, and his doctrine be not euill spoken of.
2 [Note: [3] The seconde rule: Let not seruauntes that are come to the faith, and haue also masters of the same profession and religion, abuse the name of brotherhoode, but let them so much the rather obey them. ] And they which haue beleeuing masters, let them not despise them, because they are brethren, but rather doe seruice, because they are faithfull, and beloued, and [Note: [a] Let this bee sufficient, that as touching those thinges which perteine to euerlasting life, they are partakers of the same good will and loue of God, as their masters themselues are. ] partakers of the benefite. [Page]
[Godlines is great gaine.]
[Note: [4] A general conclusion, that these thinges ought not onely to be simply taught, but must with exhortations be diligently beaten into their heads. ] These things teach and exhort.
3 [Note: [5] He condemneth seuerely & excommunicateth or casteth out of the Church as proude men, such as content not themselues wt Christs doctrine, (that is to say, the doctrine of godlinesse) but weary both themselues and others, in vaine questions, (for all other things are vaine) because they content not themselues in Christs doctrine: and as lying deceiuers, because they sauour or sounde of nothing but vanitie: as mad men, because they trouble themselues so much in matters of nothing: as mischieuous plagues, for that they cause great contentions, and corrupt mens mindes and iudgement: to be short, as prophane and wicked, because they abuse the precious name of godlines and religion, to filthie lucre. ] If any man teach otherwise, and consenteth not to the wholesome wordes of our Lorde Iesus Christ, and to the doctrine, which is according to godlinesse,
4 He is puft vp & knoweth nothing, but doteth about questions & [Note: [b] Striuings about wordes, and not about matter: and by wordes he meaneth all those things which haue no pith in them, and whereby wee can reape no profit. ] strife of words, whereof commeth enuie, strife, railings, euill surmisings,
5 Frowarde [Note: [c] Such as we see in those shamelesse schooles of Poperie, which are nothing els but vaine babling & prating. ] disputations of men of corrupt mindes & destitute of ye trueth, which thinke that gaine is godlines: from such separate thy selfe.
6 [Note: [6] He turneth away fitly, the name of gaine and lucre, confessing that godlines is great gaine, but farre after another sort, to wit, because it bringeth true sufficiencie. ] But godlinesse is great gaine, if a man be content with that he hath.
7 [Note: [7] He mocketh their follie, which do so greedily gape after fraile things, that they can in no wise be satisfied, and yet notwithstanding they can not enioy that excesse. ] For we brought nothing into the world, and it is certaine, that we can carie nothing out.
8 Therefore when wee haue foode and raiment, let vs therewith be content.
9 [Note: [8] Hee fraieth Timothie from couetousnes after another sort, to wit, because it draweth with it an infinite sort of lustes, and those very hurtfull, wherewith couetous men do torment themselues, so farre foorth that in the end, they cast away from them their faith and saluation. ] For they that will be rich, fall into tentation and snares, and into many foolish and noysome lustes, which drowne men in perdition and destruction.
10 For the desire of money is the roote of all euill, which while some lusted after, they erred from the faith, and [Note: [d] Sorowe and griefe doe as it were pearce through the minde of man, and are the haruest and true fruites of couetousnesse. ] pearced themselues through with many sorowes.
11 [Note: [9] A peculiar exhortation to diuers vertues, wherewith it behoueth the Pastors especially to be furnished. ] But thou, O [Note: [e] Whom the Spirit of God ruleth. ] man of God, flee these things, and followe after righteousnesse, godlines, faith, loue, patience, and meekenes.
12 Fight the good fight of faith: lay holde of eternal life, whereunto thou art also called, & hast professed a good profession before many witnesses.
[He commendeth Timothies faith.]
13 [Note: Chap.5.21. ] [Note: [10] A most earnest request & charge, to obserue and keepe all the premisses faithfully, with our eies set vpon the coming of Iesus Christ, whose glorie we haue to set against the vaine glistering of this world, and his power, against all the terrours of the wicked. ] I charge thee in the sight of God, who quickeneth all thinges, and before Iesus Christ, which vnder Pontius Pilate [Note: Matt.27.11. iohn 18.37. ] witnessed a good confession,
14 That thou keepe this commaundement without spot, and vnrebukeable, vntill the appearing of our Lord Iesus Christ,
15 Which in due time hee shall shewe, that is [Note: [f] He heapeth many words together, to one purpose: whereby hee vaucheth the power of God, which if we sticke fast vnto, we shall not be mooued out of our standings. ] [Note: Chap.1.11. reuel.17.14. & 19.16. ] blessed and Prince onely, the King of Kings and Lord of Lordes,
16 Who onely hath immortalitie, and dwelleth in the light yt none can attaine vnto, [Note: Iohn 1.18. ] whom neuer man sawe, neither can see, vnto whome bee honour and power euerlasting, Amen.
17 [Note: [11] He addeth for an ouerplus as it were, a sharpe admonition to the riche, that they chiefly take heede of two mischiefes, to wit, of pride, and deceitfull hope, against which he setteth three excellent vertues, hope in the liuing God, liberalitie towardes their neighbour, and gentle conditions. ] Charge them yt are rich in [Note: [g] In things perteining to this life, with whom those men are compared, which are rich in good works. ] this world, that they be not high minded, & that they [Note: Mar.4.19. lu.12.15. ] trust not in vncertaine riches, but in the [Note: [h] Who onely is, and that euerlasting: for hee setteth the fraile nature of riches against God. ] liuing God, (which giueth vs aboundatly, all things to enioy)
18 That they doe good, and be riche in good woorkes, & readie to distribute, and comunicate,
19 [Note: Mat.6.2. ] [Note: [12] The praise of liberalitie, by the effectes thereof: because it is a sure testimonie of the Spirite of God which dwelleth in vs, and therefore of the saluation that shall be giuen vs. ] Laying vp in store for themselues a good foundation against the time to come, that they may obteine eternall life.
20 [Note: [13] He rehearseth the chiefest of all the former exhortations, which ought to be deepely imprinted in the minds of all ministers of the word, to wit, that they eschew al vaine babblings of sophistrie, & continue in the simplicitie of sincere doctrine. ] O Timotheus, keepe that which is committed vnto thee, and auoide prophane and vaine babblings, and oppositios of science falsely so called,
21 Which while some [Note: [i] Not onely in word, but also in coutenance and gesture: to be short, whiles their behauiour was such that euen when they helde their peace, they would make men beleeue, their heads were occupied about nothing but hie and waightie matters, euen then they erred concerning the faith. ] professe, they haue erred concerning the faith. Grace be with thee, Amen.
¶ The first Epistle to Timotheus, written from Laodicea, which is the chiefest citie of Phrygia Pacaciana.
Thank you, Iyov. This is effectively the same text as I found here, although yours retains the older spelling.
The note at 2:12, "The first argument, why it is not lawfull for women to teache in the Congregation, because by this meanes, they should be placed aboue men, for they should be their masters: which is against Gods ordinance", is highly contentious, but revealing in that it shows how the "Reformed" camp are fighting the same battles they were fighting in the 16th century. But this note does not refer to "vsurpe authoritie", but to "I permit not a woman to teache".
I'll devote a post to the Geneva Bible notes for these verses.
Actually Peter the TNIV has;
"12 I do not permit a woman to teach or to assume authority over a man; she must be quiet."
It is the 'assume' that is questioned by Dr Grudem not 'usurp' which the Geneva quite rightly has.
Maybe you should check things before you comment.
Yes, Glenn, I am well aware that TNIV has "assume authority", not "usurp authority". Perhaps you would like to enlighten us what is the difference in meaning between these two which Grudem recognised which prompted him to claim that the TNIV is presenting a novel interpretation. The only difference I see is that "assume" is a bit weaker than "usurp". But both clearly imply taking authority upon oneself which has not been properly assigned to one.
Peter I have commented on this before and the difference between assume and usurp is more than you are willing to recognise.
Also you should at least be accurate about the wording actually used, the TNIV says 'assume' and not 'usurp' so on that basis alone your comment was/is inaccurate. Or is it only wrong for others to read their presuppositions into the text?
Glenn, I did not say that the word "usurp" was in TNIV. So my comment was not inaccurate. I said that TNIV followed the same interpretation and understanding of authentein as these older translations. At least the only sense of "assume authority" which is meaningful in the context is the one which is synonymous with "usurp authority". If you dispute that, please tell me what you understand to be the meaning of the TNIV rendering. Then perhaps we can look up how Grudem understands TNIV.
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