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Wednesday, June 29, 2005

Contest: The swift is victorious

Here is your chance to win a free Bible version postage paid by me. (The contest winner gets to pick from a selection of Bible versions I offered as prizes for the 5-5 contest early in the history of this blog, but no one entered that contest so we'll see if this contest gets a winner. The prizes for the 5-5 contest are still available if anyone wants to enter that contest.)

OK, are you ready? Read over the following verses. The first blog reader to post a comment correctly stating which Bible version the following verses are from, as well as commenting on the main translation issue in the verses will win.

Here are the verses (I'll leave off the references to make the contest a little more difficult):
The rich rules over the poor,
And the borrower is servant to the lender.

A gossip goes around revealing a secret,
but the trustworthy keeps a confidence.

The poor man uses entreaties,
But the rich answers roughly.

The righteous will rejoice
when he sees the retribution;
he will wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.

What the wicked dreads will come to him,
but what the righteous desires will be given to him.

When the wicked dies,
his expectation comes to nothing,
and hope placed in wealth vanishes.

The righteous is rescued from trouble;
in his place, the wicked goes in.

Better is the poor who walks in his integrity
Than one perverse in his ways, though he be rich.

The rich man is wise in his own eyes,
But the poor who has understanding searches him out.

5 Comments:

At Wed Jun 29, 09:42:00 AM, Blogger Michael Sly said...

Wayne,

I am not an english major and I wish I had taken more english classes. Please add your thoughts to these verses and correct any problems in my comments. I am here to learn!

Verse 1
-------
The rich rules over the poor,
And the borrower is servant to the lender.

REFERENCE: Proverbs 22:7 - New Kings James Version (NKVJ)

COMMENT: This sentence seems awkward. I would have worded it as: "The rich rule over the poor, and the borrow is a servant to the lender."

Verse 2
-------
A gossip goes around revealing a secret,
but the trustworthy keeps a confidence.

REFERENCE: Proverbs 11:3 - Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

COMMENT: The phrase "goes around", although used in spoken english, seems out of place when written. I have never in my life heard the phrase, "keeps a confidence". Wayne, can you keep a confidence? It should have been, "keeps a secret." :)'

Verse 3
-------
The poor man uses entreaties,
But the rich answers roughly.

REFERENCE: Proverbs 18:23 - Amplified Bible (AMP)

COMMENT: While I understand this passage, it is not in the vernacular of our day.

Verse 4
-------
The righteous will rejoice
when he sees the retribution;
he will wash his feet in the blood of the wicked.

REFERENCE: Psalm 58:10 - Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

COMMENT: When I see the word "righteous" I think in the plural sense. When I read the word "he" following righteous, it is awkward for me.

Verse 5
-------
What the wicked dreads will come to him,
but what the righteous desires will be given to him.

REFERENCE: Proverbs 10:24 - Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

COMMENT: Seems awkward to me but is equally awkward in other translations (NIV, NLT)

Verse 6
-------
When the wicked dies,
his expectation comes to nothing,
and hope placed in wealth vanishes.

REFERENCE: Proverbs 11:7 - Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

COMMENT: Whos hope is it? Is the "hope" from the wicked one who died or just an unrelated statement?

Verse 7
-------
The righteous is rescued from trouble;
in his place, the wicked goes in.

REFERENCE: Proverbs 11:8 - Holman Christian Standard Bible (HCSB)

COMMENT: Is "righteous" and "wicked" singular or plural? "the wicked goes in." <-- where are they going?

Verse 8
-------
Better is the poor who walks in his integrity
Than one perverse in his ways, though he be rich.

REFERENCE: Proverbs 28:6 - New King James Version (NKJV)

COMMENT: I would have used, "poor man." I would have added, "Than one WHO IS perverse . . ."

Verse 9
-------
The rich man is wise in his own eyes,
But the poor who has understanding searches him out.

REFERENCE: Proverbs 28:11 - New Kings James Version (NKJV)

COMMENT: "the poor" is this plural or singular? If singular, which it appears to be, I would have added "poor man".

 
At Wed Jun 29, 10:31:00 AM, Anonymous Jeremy said...

The post seems a little ambiguous as to whether one needs to comment on each verse or simply the group as a whole. I found the first one in ESV, then I stopped, thinking perhaps they were all the same translation. In any case, the problem with all verses is clearly that they use phrases like "the poor", "the righteous", and so forth, as if they are singular, when the verbs should be in plural form.

 
At Wed Jun 29, 11:47:00 AM, Blogger Michael Sly said...

Jeremy, you right. I was looking too deep into each verse. The plural/singular issue is a problem and it is in every verse. I was surprised to hear that every verse was taken from the HCSB when the exact wording can be found in the other versions I referenced: NKJV and AMP. It makes me wonder how unique (ie. new translation) the HCSB really is? What are the chances of getting the exact translation with the exact same problems? Maybe its not as high as I thought.

 
At Wed Jun 29, 07:44:00 PM, Blogger Wayne Leman said...

Actually, Michael, I'm glad you spotted other things in the verses besides just the problem with the plurals. You saw several things which I had not thought about yet. Well done.

 
At Thu Jun 30, 02:35:00 AM, Blogger Trevor Jenkins said...

Are all these renderings from the HCSB? Like Jeremy I thought that some of these quotes were from the ESV.

Looking the references up in an online copy of the HCSB some of the wordings are different. This is particularly noticable in Pr 18:23 where the online edition has The poor man pleads, but the rich one answers roughly., 28:6 with Better a poor man who lives with integrity than a rich man who distorts right and wrong., 28:11 with A rich man is wise in his own eyes, but a poor man who has discernment sees through him.

Now it maybe that some minor (unpublicised) revision of the HCSB has taken place between the edition Wayne is copying from was printed and the edition that is online.

Despite these differences Michael Sly certainly deserves his prize especially for going the extra mile and identifying other versions where similar/identical wordings exist.

I'm going to add Wayne's choice of verses to my list of verses for comparing translations.

It's also time I re-read Proverbs; a book I've not study in a few years.

 

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