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Saturday, February 25, 2006

Email to Justin Taylor

This is the text of my email to Justin Taylor sent Friday morning.

    Dear Justin,

    I respect the non-confrontational manner in which you have interacted with us.

    I wonder if you could tell me who would be the appropriate people to contact in order to request a retraction and an apology for the Statement of Concern about the TNIV.

    I deeply feel that the scholars of the TNIV deserve a retraction and apology posted on a prominent website. I think that the ESV blog might be suitable given the official position of some of the translators of the ESV and the involvement of the general editor, Dr. Packer himself, in this statement.

    Please accept that I cannot further apologize for what I have quoted from Dr. Packer without saying something untruthful, since I am quoting him honestly and do not want to appear to change what were in fact his own words told to me spontaneously without my expectation.

    I have revised my post here.

    Please understand that I too do not wish to be cantankerous but have a deep desire for truth and charity.


    Suzanne McCarthy

He has not responded. I have posted a similar request on Justin Taylor's website in the comment section.

Many people have contacted Wayne Grudem and Vern Poythress in the past to get them to retract the Statement of Concern about the TNIV but these men have not responded.

I have found that the online status of the Statement of Concern is in flux. The original link is broken. The short version is here. However, the statement has been copied and reproduced in full here. It is in its full text in The TNIV and the Gender Neutral Bibile Controversy, by Poythress and Grudem, a book that I have been given to review. This book is still on the market.

I have interpreted this parable that I should not give up.

    Jesus told his disciples a story about how they should keep on praying and never give up:

    In a town there was once a judge who didn't fear God or care about people. In that same town there was a widow who kept going to the judge and saying,

    "Make sure that I get fair treatment in court."

    For a while the judge refused to do anything. Finally, he said to himself,

    "Even though I don't fear God or care about people, I will help this widow because she keeps on bothering me. If I don't help her, she will wear me out."

    The Lord said: Think about what that crooked judge said. Won't God protect his chosen ones who pray to him day and night? Won't he be concerned for them? He will surely hurry and help them. But when the Son of Man comes, will he find on this earth anyone with faith? Luke 18:1-8 CEV


At Sat Feb 25, 12:56:00 PM, Blogger Suzanne McCarthy said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At Sat Feb 25, 01:04:00 PM, Blogger Suzanne McCarthy said...

This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

At Sat Feb 25, 11:05:00 PM, Blogger Suzanne McCarthy said...

I have just posted this on Justin Taylor's site. Of course, it won't stick.

I think the point is that the ESV was a response to the NIVI, 1996, (inclusive language) in England, which preceded the TNIV.

I was at a workshop in 1997 with some of the NIVI translators when I first heard about this.

"Zondervan, publishers of the New International Version attempted to publish a gender inclusive translation in 1996 also (NIVI) and were thoroughly attacked for the publication of the The NIVI-UK edition by enough evangelical scholars that publication in of the NIVI in North America was axed."

Does anyone remember this?

At Sun Feb 26, 11:40:00 AM, Blogger R. Mansfield said...

I would have to say you're right Suzanne. Most people forget about the inclusive NIV. And not only was it axed for US release, but they also withdrew the UK version completely, after it had already been published!

Fortunatly, I ordered a copy while they were still available and had it shipped here to the US. When I compared it to the NLT which was fairly new at the time, I felt like the NIVI was more conservative in its gender inclusivity than the NLT was. This is what the original Colorado Springs Guidelines were in response to, if I'm not mistaken. And D. A. Carson's The Inclusive Langauge Debate: A Plea for Realism was primarily in response to the reaction to the NIVI.

To this day (and I've said this before) I still don't understand why the NLT is accepted and the TNIV is not. If it's a matter of the NIV figuring as a more prominent translation, then I don't know what the problem is since IBS/Zondervan chose not to withdraw the standard NIV from publication, too.

At Sun Feb 26, 06:58:00 PM, Blogger Suzanne McCarthy said...

Thanks. What I realy want is justice for the translators of the TNIV.How can we talk about better Bibles with this kind of selective condemnation going ?

At Tue Feb 28, 04:43:00 AM, Blogger Peter Kirk said...

Rick, the NIV Inclusive Language Edition was not withdrawn here in the UK. It is still listed by the UK publishers Hodder and Stoughton, although there is a technical problem with the site. And it is listed as available at

I found the following commendation on the Hodder and Stoughton NIV website, on a page which also has several TNIV commendations:

I am an enthusiast for The Thematic NIV Study Bible.
J I Packer

At Wed Mar 01, 05:45:00 PM, Blogger Glennsp said...

I have just read the full version of the Statement of Concern by following the link you provided.
I fail to see the personal attacks on the translators that you seem to think are there.
So I read it a second time, and, no I still cannot see the personalised attacks you refer to.
I can see no justifiable reason for any of the signatories to retract any of their concerns.
I do find your accusations against the ESV signatories to be based more on your own preconceptions than on what was actually said and as such I can see nothing for Justin Taylor to respond to.
Why should Justin Taylor, Dr Grudem and Dr Poythress retract something that is not doing what you say it is.
The Statement of Concern is balanced and does not attack the TNIV translators, but makes fair comment on the issues of translation.
I'm afraid that it is you that has tried to turn it into something it is not.


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